Republican Presidential Debate

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't think so, Doyle. I think the fact is that I have rejected the leadership of these two individuals. They have led our party in the wrong direction. We have lost the last two presidential elections. We have lost the last two congressional elections. The message of intolerance and exclusion rather than inclusion is directly in contradiction to the message that I have been trying to send around America and that is: Come to our proud, conservative banner. We will reform the government. We'll give it back to you.

But ours is a message of inclusion. Ours is a message that says: Come take part in this noble experiment. This is the greatest opportunity that America has had. And I want all of you there. And that's the Ronald Reagan-Theodore Roosevelt-Abraham Lincoln tradition.

And I am positive that Christian conservatives all over America will flock to that banner. They will desert, I hope, the intolerant and wrong-headedness of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

MCCAIN: I would love to follow the example of Theodore Roosevelt. He's my ultimate hero. But in this particular example, no, I am a loyal Republican. The Republican Party is my home.

What I want to do is lead the Republican Party back, back to where we were before, back when Ronald Reagan was able to assemble a coalition of the people we used to call the Reagan Democrats, proud conservatives who shared our vision for the future of this country. And that's really what I am trying to do with this party. I am loyal no matter who our nominee is, I will support that nominee.

MCCAIN: Well first of all, I share their values and their goals of the rank and file of the so-called Christian right. As I have said, I am a proud conservative with a strong conservative record in the tradition of Ronald Reagan and Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln. And I am proud of that record. I am proud that I have been one who has supported many of the issues that have to do with family values.

Where I have differed in the past and continue to differ with Mr. Falwell and Mr. Robertson is on issues such as the issue of President Clinton. I voted to impeach President Clinton. I don't believe he's a murderer. Mr. Falwell believes that he's a murderer. Mr. Robertson has espoused some cockamamie theories about the Freemasons. I believe that they have led the— some very good and wonderful people in a message of intolerance. We share the same values, but their practice of politics is exclusionary and not inclusionary. I want the party of Abraham Lincoln, not the party of Bob Jones.

MCCAIN: I have no idea, but I know that they actively supported him. I know that they made phone calls on his behalf which accused a good and decent man, Warren Rudman, of being a bigot, a vicious bigot and many other things.

But look, those phone calls were made, they are done. I'm interested in the issues of the day and stop the squabbling and address the issues of education, health care, the military and others that are important to the future of this country.

MCCAIN: Well, I think you would agree with that if you believed that the power of the teachers' unions cannot be broken. The power of the teachers' unions in my state of Arizona fought tooth and nail against charter schools, yet we prevailed. And the best schools in my state happen to be charter schools.

I believe that it's a serious mistake to allow some bureaucrat in Washington to decide about the standards to be set by the people of the state of Arizona. We have a wonderful state superintendent of education. Her name is Lisa Graham Keegan. I think she's perfectly capable, as are the parents and the teachers, to be able to make those decisions. I want those decisions made not by some Washington bureaucrat but by somebody who knows my children's names. And that's all got to do with local and parental control.

MCCAIN: Sure.

MCCAIN: Probably in leading the effort in my—being involved in the effort in my state for reform in many areas, supporting various education programs, a member of the Education Committee in the House of Representatives years ago and being part of those efforts as well, using the bully pulpit in favor of the examples that are set in my state and by other reformers in the school system in America—I mean, that are reformers of the school system in America.

I'm glad to have been involved in the—in the military to teachers' programs...

MCCAIN: ... where people who leave the military can become teachers if they're qualified to do so.

MCCAIN: Judy, I think I need my 30 seconds.

MCCAIN: Yes, OK.

MCCAIN: All right.

MCCAIN: Doyle, I think you have made a very narrow interpretation of what I call rogue state rollback, and that means that you do whatever you can, whether it be the use of propaganda, whether it be used to organize groups outside the country, whether it be arming and training and equipping, depending on what the possibilities are. And by the way, the Congress of the United States three years ago passed the Iraqi Liberation Act which calls for basically exactly the same thing, so I am sure that was taken into consideration then.

No, this is an attempt to avoid U.S. military involvement. We do what we can to overthrow these countries which pose a clear and present danger to the security of the United States of America—clearly, Saddam Hussein. If you read any periodical, including the "L.A. Times," will tell you that he is attempting to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. That's a direct threat to the United States' national security.

So you really kind of have two choices: you react militarily, risking American lives, or do you try to overthrow that government, which is by the way, according now to existing laws. I would support such...

MCCAIN: Thank you.

MCCAIN: I accept the fundamental principle, Doyle, that they pose a threat to the United States' national security. When North Korea tests a three-stage missile over Japan, they pose a threat, and when there's transfer of technology which allows nations to acquire these weapons of mass destruction, they are a threat.

I am willing to explore all options, all options to prevent that threat from ever being realized. And clearly those are countries that threaten our security and this administration has conducted a feckless photo-op foreign policy for which the next president of the United States may pay a very heavy price in American blood and treasure.

MCCAIN: Well, I don't think it should be a source of worry. But anything is fair game, as I have found out during this campaign. The fact is, I respect Bill Bennett's views. He has criticized me on several times in the past, and I am sure that criticism has been constructive.

Look, I have been in this campaign for 14 months now. I believe that I have conducted it with honor, with dignity, and in a way that has made me and the people surrounding me proud. That's why we have attracted so many young people, so much enthusiasm to our banner, so many people who have never been involved in politics before. Enthusiasm and the commitment to young people show that my message and my temperament and my view and my vision for the future of the country is something that they're able to look up to, respect, admire, and be part of. We're changing the face of politics in America, and I am very proud of this campaign and the way we've all conducted it.

MCCAIN: I think it was straight talk because I wanted to tell people exactly what Governor Bush had done. I did not accuse him of being an anti-Catholic bigot. It did not say anything except he was there and waited three weeks before he repudiated it.

But the fact is, that that was a factual and fair statement and one that I stand by, unlike many of the phone calls that are being made as we speak, and the negative ads that are being broadcast all over television.

But I am not here to squabble about that. I am here to talk about the issues that are important for the day.

MCCAIN: And that's why I am proud of this campaign. And I stand by the words in that message.

MCCAIN: Well, of course I would. And the fact is that there has been a strategic ambiguity, but the person who destroyed the strategic ambiguity was President Clinton, when he went to China and called Jiang Zemin and the Chinese his strategic partner, and he destroyed the delicate balance of ambiguity which is causing many of these problems now, which is again an example of the fecklessness of the Clinton foreign policy.

Of course, I would tell the Taiwanese that they should observe the one-China policy, which calls for peaceful unification— reunification. Of course, the Taiwanese will react because the people of Taiwan and the government of Taiwan recognize that the provocation of China would only lead to increased tensions.

So, yes, obviously I would exercise our suasion over them. But have no doubt as to why we're in the situation we're in, and that's because of the—of President Clinton's trip to China, where this long-standing strategic ambiguity was shattered by intemperate remarks by the president of the United States.

MCCAIN: Not no matter what. It would be careful assessment by the Department of Defense and the State Department as to what—as we—as has been our tradition in the past.

But I'll tell you what I would do without a doubt, and that is that I would push the development of sea-based missile defense systems as—from the U.S. standpoint, so that in case of tensions in the region I could move those ships very close but in international waters and make it clear to the Chinese that the consequences of aggression against Taiwan far, far exceed anything they might gain from committing that aggression.

MCCAIN: I won't waste more than five. The fact is I am a proud pro-life candidate. It's a very, very difficult issue that was raised concerning one's family decisions. I am pro-life, and that's my position, and I'm sorry that Mr. Keyes continues to misconstrue it, but that's his privilege.

I would like to also comment, no matter how Governor Bush slices it, it's federal control of education that his plan is about.

And finally, that description of campaign finance reform is one of the most bizarre that I have experienced. He is now saying...

MCCAIN: All right.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

MCCAIN: Well, I think plenty of them respect and admire him more than me. But the major reason and the majority reason why most of them, obviously, in my view, are very concerned about my candidacy, including being frightened is because I am taking on the establishment and the iron triangle, and everybody knows that, and campaign finance reform is a key element of that, and Governor Bush just said that he wants unlimited contributions from individuals.

Maybe that's—explains why there have been the sleepovers in Austin at the governor's mansion by the pioneers. Maybe that's why it's being set up, the apparatus, right now of the so-called pioneers and other apparatus to raise unlimited amounts of money to funnel into this political campaign coming up in the same way that Clinton and Gore did. That's a matter of published reports.

Campaign finance reform is the key element and an important element and a vital element if we're going to give the government back to the people, and if you're going to allow people like Bernard Schwartz of Loral to give a million dollars...

MCCAIN: ... and technology is transferred to China, we have got a continuing big problem in America.

MCCAIN: Good.

MCCAIN: I don't think so. By the way, George, if I am ringing it like the dinner bell, you have got both feet in the trough because you have raised five times the amount of money in Washington that I have. Look, I get along with them.

Two-hundred-and-thirty-four pieces of legislation has borne my name.

I'm proud of many major pieces of legislation playing a major role in foreign defense policy, Y2K product liability reform. My committee churns out more legislation than any other. I am very proud of my record and the work that I have done with all of my colleagues, and if I have a mandate, they're going to follow.

MCCAIN: Not as nearly as well as I should, Judy. My wife, Cindy, is a whiz, and when I want to find out what's on CNN, or the "New York Times," or the "Washington Post," or other Communist periodicals...

(LAUGHTER)

MCCAIN: ... I always go to it. But the phenomenal thing about the Internet as far as we're concerned, we have gotten like $7 million in contributions over the Internet. It's been marvelous. Governor Bush talks about the interests in Washington, I think he's gotten $700,000. Seven million dollars, people just coming in on the Internet and contributing to our campaign because they want reform. They want the government back and they want it back in their hands, and that's what this campaign is all about, and I'm exuberant about giving it to them.

MCCAIN: As we approach next Tuesday, which may be a seminal event in this campaign, I hope you'll ask yourselves a couple of questions: Who is most fully prepared to be president of the United States? And who is most capable of winning a victory in November and defeating Al Gore?

I am proud of the campaign we have run, which has attracted people from everywhere, young and old, rich and poor to our banner, under the banner of proud Reagan conservatism, has expanded the base of our party in a way that we haven't experienced since Ronald Reagan.

I assure you and I commit to you that I will restore honor and dignity to the White House, and then I will inspire a generation of young Americans to commit themselves to causes greater than their self-interests. I am very proud of this campaign. I am very proud of the fact that we have tried to build America up and tear no one down. I ask for your support and your vote next Tuesday, and I thank you for having me on this program.